Sometimes this discussion is called Formula vs. Longboards. I do not consider this a competition nor do I consider these board types to be mutually exclusive. It should be a symbiotic relationship in terms of helping windsurfing. Both are meant for the lighter to mid winds and start to be beyond their means when one speaks of 25 + knot winds.
Before I get too deep into discussion, perhaps I should briefly describe what these board types are, generally speaking. I will assume that the name Formula was derived from Formula car racing :-) These boards are typically low rider , wide boards – somewhat similar to the Formula I racing car. Nowadays Formula boards are typically one meter wide and shorter than they used to be and not nearly as long as a longboard. They usually have very long fins – around 70 cm and use very large sails – from 10-oh to 12-oh. The longboard, as the name implies, is a longer windsurf or sailboard – typically over 11 feet. Measures are relative and it is a simple measure to say that both Formula and Longboards will not fit into the average North American motor vehicle. The Formula boards are really wide and the Longboards really long. Longboards typically have what one calls dagger boards or centre boards. These act like a keel and help the board go upwind. Both boards work well with 8.5’s and I am unsure how large a sail a longboard can handle – probably depends on the board - in races it seems 9.5 is the max.
This discussion of "Formula Boards vs Longboards" is found in windsurf magazines, forums and at the local beach. Interestingly enough, locally there is more discussion and evidence of formula boards than longboards. Just as I met a fellow who wants to be considered an ambassador of SUP {stand up paddling} in the province of Québec, I wish to become an ambassador and advocate of longboarding in Montréal !!
I believe longboarding is less about racing than formula. Formula requires a certain amount of wind because it is very inefficient when there is almost no wind – like fewer than 10 knots (i say 10 knots cuz i am a heavyweight of close to 100 kilos). Longboards are fine in light to mid winds and the centre board helps when it comes to those lighter winds. People discuss what happens when longboards and formula boards race and it seems the results are extremely dependent on the course and the conditions. At a certain point, the formula board will just blow the doors off the longboard and other times the longboard will be the predominant winner. This is why I say they are NOT mutually exclusive AND as such I am surprised there are not more people or racers doing both. Perhaps it comes down to cost... Formula boards, sails and masts are extremely expensive. A race longboard is also extremely expensive. Interestingly enough, there are older race longboards that DO show up in the used market OCCASIONALLY.
A bit of history ... The earliest sailboards were longboards. They were long, heavy, had small fins, a centre board and no footstraps. Apparently the first world championships were in 1973. The International Mistral Class Organization/IMCO started in 1976. In 1984 windsurfing became part of the Olympics for men. Board choice has been an issue ever since and there was talk of removing the event from 2012 Olympics. Early longboards had boat like hulls, but flattened out quickly ... The most famous longboard of today has to be the Kona ONE and perhaps the Starboard Phantom. In the early race days, there were boards like the Mistral Equipe, Mistral Superlight, Fanatic Mega Cat, Tiga Race, the One Designs and F2 Lightning. Today’s longboards are still over 180 litres in volume and usually more than 11 feet.
Racing example:
The Starboard company was infamous (and still is) for coming out with new and innovative concepts when it comes to sailboards. They recovered the industry with the wide GO board and also started the Formula line in about 1999. In around 2002 the boards hit the one meter width and it has stayed there since. Other companies like AHD, BIC, Exocet, F2, Mistral and others have tried to keep with up with Starboard in the Formula arena, but have had difficulty.
Racing example:
In general people are saying that a Formula board will require about 2 knots less wind than a modern longboard in order to plane – when using the same sail for the same person. This is an interesting idea because typically people say one cannot use the same sail on these different boards since the formula prefers a sail with a loose leech and the longboard prefers a sail with a tighter leech.
So, the longboard can handle lighter winds more readily. The formula does not schlogg well. The formula board can be faster in planing. Both can go upwind quite well. Apparently it takes some getting used to when getting in the footstraps on the formula for the first time – due to board width. The formula has quite a long fin and as such has issues with shallow waters and rocks. They say formula boards are fragile. If you are not racing, one board and two(2) sails should be adequate in either of these disciplines. Both board types get you on the water earlier and both can handle quite decent winds – to about 25 knots.
So, it is just a matter of personal choice !! Since I like to go on the water and almost drift about and explore, I use an old longboard for now (BIC Dufour Wing) . I hope to try a Kona ONE end of July 2011 in Ottawa. These longboards are quite capable of planing and fast...Perhaps one day I will manage to purchase a used one...
For me it is all about TOW aka time on water. This week I sailed every day so far. My w/s buddy, who is selling his 160 and will have only a 130 liter board, would not even consider going out unless steady 16 knot winds. However, he too is considering the possibility of a Kona ONE. Some people "argue" that a large freeride board with larger sails is the "way to go" - rather than formula. I have a 160 liter/79 cm board that i use with an 8.5 and 10-oh. With my weight, the starting point is 12 knots. Under that, I go for the longboard. With a formula i might gain 2 knots ie be able to start planing at 10 knots. I have determined that i can do the same thing much more cheaply - just lose some more weight !! {Allison Shreeve of Australia says she can plane in 6 knots on a Formula board !!}
My motto: Get out there and ride. You're gonna like it :-)
Unfortunately, my skills stop me around the 25 knot mark - also when waves get over about one foot... {for now !!}
Follow-up: Re-discovered a piece on James Douglass' blog: http://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2009/09/wind-thresholds-and-kitestration.html In this post it discusses and shows on the graph that longboards can reach planing thresholds around 12 knots whereas Formula boards do this around 8 knots. However, it is NOT until 12 knots in the Formula arena when pumping is no longer required. Personally, I have never been a fan of pumping and use it sparingly. Have NO idea how the Olympic RSX folks do it cuz it is TIRING !!
For me the issues for Formula are cost and pumping. For the longboard the issue is availability !! Cannot easily find Phantoms or Kona ONEs !!! Will check out the Konas in Ottawa the weekend of 31JUL2011 and go from there - will probably stay with what i have since sails are starting to need replacement...
Update: Since the original post, I have purchased an MS-2 8-oh with matching 490/75 mast and a Fanatic Ultra CAT, a classique longboard. This CAT can plane when even the kiters got off the water at OKA Park and it can handle the 10-oh. The Formula solution for me was too $$$, too specialized, too long a fin and too sensitive. The longboard was inexpensive, can go in 7 knots, has a short 12 inch/30 cm fin and fully retractable centreboard and can handle any abuse. This was a NO brainer for me and it gets chuckles or comments wherever i go :-)
Before I get too deep into discussion, perhaps I should briefly describe what these board types are, generally speaking. I will assume that the name Formula was derived from Formula car racing :-) These boards are typically low rider , wide boards – somewhat similar to the Formula I racing car. Nowadays Formula boards are typically one meter wide and shorter than they used to be and not nearly as long as a longboard. They usually have very long fins – around 70 cm and use very large sails – from 10-oh to 12-oh. The longboard, as the name implies, is a longer windsurf or sailboard – typically over 11 feet. Measures are relative and it is a simple measure to say that both Formula and Longboards will not fit into the average North American motor vehicle. The Formula boards are really wide and the Longboards really long. Longboards typically have what one calls dagger boards or centre boards. These act like a keel and help the board go upwind. Both boards work well with 8.5’s and I am unsure how large a sail a longboard can handle – probably depends on the board - in races it seems 9.5 is the max.
This discussion of "Formula Boards vs Longboards" is found in windsurf magazines, forums and at the local beach. Interestingly enough, locally there is more discussion and evidence of formula boards than longboards. Just as I met a fellow who wants to be considered an ambassador of SUP {stand up paddling} in the province of Québec, I wish to become an ambassador and advocate of longboarding in Montréal !!
I believe longboarding is less about racing than formula. Formula requires a certain amount of wind because it is very inefficient when there is almost no wind – like fewer than 10 knots (i say 10 knots cuz i am a heavyweight of close to 100 kilos). Longboards are fine in light to mid winds and the centre board helps when it comes to those lighter winds. People discuss what happens when longboards and formula boards race and it seems the results are extremely dependent on the course and the conditions. At a certain point, the formula board will just blow the doors off the longboard and other times the longboard will be the predominant winner. This is why I say they are NOT mutually exclusive AND as such I am surprised there are not more people or racers doing both. Perhaps it comes down to cost... Formula boards, sails and masts are extremely expensive. A race longboard is also extremely expensive. Interestingly enough, there are older race longboards that DO show up in the used market OCCASIONALLY.
A bit of history ... The earliest sailboards were longboards. They were long, heavy, had small fins, a centre board and no footstraps. Apparently the first world championships were in 1973. The International Mistral Class Organization/IMCO started in 1976. In 1984 windsurfing became part of the Olympics for men. Board choice has been an issue ever since and there was talk of removing the event from 2012 Olympics. Early longboards had boat like hulls, but flattened out quickly ... The most famous longboard of today has to be the Kona ONE and perhaps the Starboard Phantom. In the early race days, there were boards like the Mistral Equipe, Mistral Superlight, Fanatic Mega Cat, Tiga Race, the One Designs and F2 Lightning. Today’s longboards are still over 180 litres in volume and usually more than 11 feet.
Racing example:
The Starboard company was infamous (and still is) for coming out with new and innovative concepts when it comes to sailboards. They recovered the industry with the wide GO board and also started the Formula line in about 1999. In around 2002 the boards hit the one meter width and it has stayed there since. Other companies like AHD, BIC, Exocet, F2, Mistral and others have tried to keep with up with Starboard in the Formula arena, but have had difficulty.
Racing example:
In general people are saying that a Formula board will require about 2 knots less wind than a modern longboard in order to plane – when using the same sail for the same person. This is an interesting idea because typically people say one cannot use the same sail on these different boards since the formula prefers a sail with a loose leech and the longboard prefers a sail with a tighter leech.
So, the longboard can handle lighter winds more readily. The formula does not schlogg well. The formula board can be faster in planing. Both can go upwind quite well. Apparently it takes some getting used to when getting in the footstraps on the formula for the first time – due to board width. The formula has quite a long fin and as such has issues with shallow waters and rocks. They say formula boards are fragile. If you are not racing, one board and two(2) sails should be adequate in either of these disciplines. Both board types get you on the water earlier and both can handle quite decent winds – to about 25 knots.
So, it is just a matter of personal choice !! Since I like to go on the water and almost drift about and explore, I use an old longboard for now (BIC Dufour Wing) . I hope to try a Kona ONE end of July 2011 in Ottawa. These longboards are quite capable of planing and fast...Perhaps one day I will manage to purchase a used one...
For me it is all about TOW aka time on water. This week I sailed every day so far. My w/s buddy, who is selling his 160 and will have only a 130 liter board, would not even consider going out unless steady 16 knot winds. However, he too is considering the possibility of a Kona ONE. Some people "argue" that a large freeride board with larger sails is the "way to go" - rather than formula. I have a 160 liter/79 cm board that i use with an 8.5 and 10-oh. With my weight, the starting point is 12 knots. Under that, I go for the longboard. With a formula i might gain 2 knots ie be able to start planing at 10 knots. I have determined that i can do the same thing much more cheaply - just lose some more weight !! {Allison Shreeve of Australia says she can plane in 6 knots on a Formula board !!}
My motto: Get out there and ride. You're gonna like it :-)
Unfortunately, my skills stop me around the 25 knot mark - also when waves get over about one foot... {for now !!}
Follow-up: Re-discovered a piece on James Douglass' blog: http://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2009/09/wind-thresholds-and-kitestration.html In this post it discusses and shows on the graph that longboards can reach planing thresholds around 12 knots whereas Formula boards do this around 8 knots. However, it is NOT until 12 knots in the Formula arena when pumping is no longer required. Personally, I have never been a fan of pumping and use it sparingly. Have NO idea how the Olympic RSX folks do it cuz it is TIRING !!
For me the issues for Formula are cost and pumping. For the longboard the issue is availability !! Cannot easily find Phantoms or Kona ONEs !!! Will check out the Konas in Ottawa the weekend of 31JUL2011 and go from there - will probably stay with what i have since sails are starting to need replacement...
Update: Since the original post, I have purchased an MS-2 8-oh with matching 490/75 mast and a Fanatic Ultra CAT, a classique longboard. This CAT can plane when even the kiters got off the water at OKA Park and it can handle the 10-oh. The Formula solution for me was too $$$, too specialized, too long a fin and too sensitive. The longboard was inexpensive, can go in 7 knots, has a short 12 inch/30 cm fin and fully retractable centreboard and can handle any abuse. This was a NO brainer for me and it gets chuckles or comments wherever i go :-)
Nice article!
ReplyDeleteIt's a good thing to have longboard ambassadors because these boards bring back people to the sport. I had several requests from people that want to try it again...
I hope you can try the Kona, you will like it. It's nicer to sail than my old Sailboard Vario because you can plane well with it too. Like modern boards, the Kona is fragile tough, so the old board will be kept for the kids.
Sailboarder
Thx sailboarder!!
ReplyDeleteI use the BIC Dufour Wing to introduce people to the sport - usually with the small North Zeta 4.2. Just recently i purchased the inflatable Mistral Windglider. My 12 year old nephew was "windsurfing" in less than 10 minutes. Wish i had purchased one long ago!!
joe windsurfer