It seems anything over about 75 kilos (ONLY 165 lbs!!) is considered a heavyweight in the windsurfing world. One would think this would make it easier for women since they are typically under this weight, but not even that apparently !!
(Catapulting Aaron commented average American male windsurfer is more like 80 kilos or 176 pounds.)
At just under 100 kilos, what does that make me ?? The doctor says my weight is okay and i could stand to lose a few pounds, butt i am no longer in the so called obese category as per BMI. When i call myself "average joe windsurfer", it is in terms of skills and experience and NOT in terms of weight. Perhaps i should call myself average BIG joe windsurfer ?? :-) {why does this blog not post smiling faces ?? :-)}
I started this post due to a long time frustration and this entry on the MauiSails forum: http://www.mauisails.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3213
This gentleman,Mike, windsurfed many years ago and wishes to get back into the sport on a lake environment. As a heavyweight it was recommended he purchase a Fanatic Viper 85 which is 220 liters and obviously 85 cm wide with a very small learner sail 6.0. Personally feel this is "putz about" equipment and the gentleman will outgrow it extremely quickly. Also, around 2006 Fanatic was suggesting more narrow boards - around 80 cm. I posted an entry on the Fanatic forum to see what they have to say about the width factor on the Viper ...
"back in about 2006 Fanatic seemed to be going away from very wide boards and staying under 80 cm. There is an 85 cm wide Viper available now. On the MauiSails forum a gentleman was asking about this board. He weighs about 250 lbs and wishes to sail on small to large lakes. My question is whether he would be better off with an 80 cm board which can glide through holes and plane up great in bigger winds. "
This was the answer from Fanatic forum:
"Hi Joe,
I guess that Viper 85 has been in the line since about 2006, actually mainly due to US market at first, although nowdays most of our schools share 80/85 sizes equally. For 250lbs, he might be better off on the 85, the extra width and volume does not hurt, especially for fresh water sailing. Depends a bit on the winds obviously, if it´s constantly windy, the 80 might work, but doubt it is on smaller lakes.
Good sailing,
Craig "
So, it depends on whether it will be more on the small lake or larger lake with bigger, steadier winds - and this makes good sense.
Here's the Fanatic sales pitch on youtube:
Mike has everything going against him - and that is regarding one of the greatest water sports around %^&* --- Not many longboards offered (or too technical and $$$), he is NOT an average weight person as per equipment setups and he is going on a lake.
Having windsurfed on a small lake of one mile length and less width for many years , a longboard is still the obvious choice. This issue today is - which one is the best for these lakes for not too much money ?? And once again - best for heavyweights of 100 + kilos... What was once a standard seems to be harder n harder to get. Then again, Starboard seems to be adding a centre-board to their larger GOs.
The other side of the coin is that the fastest windsurfers in the world are over 100 kilos and often tall as well. Antoine Albeau, Bjorn Dunkerbeck and Finian Maynard are some of the world's fastest and yet not small men. Dave White is a also a big man and known for incredible speeds and making it look effortless. Dave is a special windsurfer in that he does things with equipment that it was never intended to do - more on that later.
The sail seems to be a simpler "issue". I suggested a no-cam fully battened MS Pursuit 7.0 sail. This sail for a bigger fellow will get him started, not be too heavy and can be used in the future as a quite decent sail. Would have preferred an 8.5, but need to know skill potential first. More on that from Tinho later ...
If it was for a shortboard and a heavyweight returning back to windsurfing, I think the choice would be a little easier. A small reminder: I speak about flat water blasting with some chop. Those doing bump n jump and/or wave are on a different scale as far as I am concerned. So, a heavyweight over 100 kilos getting back into windsurfing on a shortboard... One could use a 135 liter board to be able to uphaul, especially a wide one, but that could be frustrating... Suggest a 160 liter shortboard with about 80 cm of width. Also, personally feel longer is better for coasting through lulls. AND would stick to the suggestion of a 7-oh sail to start. Later get that 8.5 and rip. My 230 lb buddy just purchased his second board - a Fanatic Hawk 135 - after his BIC Techno 2 160. Let's see how that goes - will he get rid of the 160 is the question !! He never went for the 10-oh - feeling it was just too big. He also wants to go to 8-oh when he replaces the 8.5. My 8.5 is practically my favourite setup for the BIC Dufour and the AHD FF !!
Follow-up: Now i am REALLY surprised. After just one trial run with the Fanatic Hawk 135 in overpowering conditions on a Retro 6-oh, Helmut has put his BIC Techno II 160 up for sale. This is against both my and Bruno of 2-rad's recommendation/suggestion. Not so sure the 135 will be a good schlogger. Once again, time will tell ...
Follow-up2: Attempts to run the 8.5 in 15 knot winds and wind shadows proved difficult. Almost impossible to uphaul. We'll see...
Follow-up3: Helmut beach started the Hawk 135 , planed, got in the foot-straps and hit his brand new Hawk with the mast :-(
Bruno of 2-rad ,who repaired the board for 20 bucks , says he can plane on his RRD 90 liter board using a 6.2 in 14 knots - and he is 200 lbs !!! For me that's my 160 liter board using my 10-oh !! And Helmut confirmed that 16 knots is perfect for the 8.5 So, how does Bruno do it ???
Okay, so, which longboard should a heavyweight use on a lake? GO, Serenity, KONA, Viper, AHD ZEN or ??? Width was discussed with the fanatic forum question earlier in this post... Seems like 80 to 90 cm is a good width for starting back.
Here is a pic of the AHD ZEN:
When I purchased my 2006 AHD FastForward/FF 160 in 2007, the original intent was to upgrade the BIC Dufour Wing longboard. On the short list were the Fanatic Viper and the AHD ZEN since both would be supplied by local windsurf shops. I had narrowed it down to the ZEN 170 since i would also use it on the St-Lawrence with hopes of going in bigger winds. Thus, I was NOT going for the 200+ liter boards. I will post this question to both AHD and Tinho Dornellas of Calema Sports in Florida - since he was the designer of this board ... Bruno André replied and seemed to feel the 80 cm board would be fine - he did not comment on volume. Tinho replied saying he uses both the Viper 80 and 85 for teaching. He agrees with Craig of Fanatic in that an 80 cm Viper is good for a heavyweight with some skills. Tinho also pointed out the fin that comes with the board is NOT adequate. This is an often overlooked detail - i did it here %^&*( Tinho also went so far as to suggest a larger performance sail ie possibility of cambers... The most i suggested was an 8.5 and had not even considered cambers since Mike was getting back in the sport and some people do not like the extra "hassle" of cambers. If it is an issue, it is NOT in terms of rigging, nor de-rigging. The worst problem i have encountered is failure of cams to rotate in light winds or when the sail is new and not hauled enough.. Oh yeah, Tinho mentioned the option of a SUP that can handle a sail as well...
Many of the Starboard/SB boards that are for "beginners" are 85 cm wide, but are much less in volume - around 170 liters. Boards of this genre and longboards today all have fully retractable centreboards. With a little bigger back fin they can act like a shortboard !! Then there are the new concepts like the KONA where the surface area on the water changes as one speeds up !!! The Serenity is a special animal that is not for all and seems to require some windsurf skills already. It reminds me of the sculls, but with a sail. There is always the SUP option with a sail as well now.I will put a post on the SB forum to see what Roger Jackson says for Starboard longboards to start back with as a heavyweight.
Roger has responded and suggested the SB Phantom 320 as a first choice, the RIO L as second and he reluctantly suggested the GO windsurfer as third. The Phantom is more like the traditional longboard. My only question is: where does one get one in the NE USA and how much ?? Saw some decent videos on this board !!!
What about Exocet KONA ONE 220 and Tabou Windstyler 220?? The Kona Link is 220 liters, 80 cm wide and costs about $1200 at windspirit.com. The Tabou Windstyler is 220 liters also, but only 72 cm wide. This is okay for a longboard, but is a choice one has to make ...Windsurfing-direct.com does not seem to have em - they have the slightly smaller Rider. Let me write Matt Pritchard... Matt is already in contact with Mike = excellent !! Jerry of the Toronto Windsurf club strongly suggests the KONA as a "modern" longboard. It seems there are more options that I originally had thought !! This is good news...
Here is a video of Tinho Dornella's custom board Z2 - made for heavyweights. Tinho was also the designer of the infamous AHD ZEN - another great starter board...
I had promised more on Dave White aka Whitey. Here is an article about a big windsurfer, who apparently now spends more time doing photography !!
http://www.guycribb.com/userfiles/documents/HavingItLarge.pdf
This is much BETTER than American Idol - which board will win ?? Scotty won AI, butt which board will win this race ??
Mike had said he would let us know the outcome of his hunt for the return to windsurfing. Let us wish him lots of luck !! At last "discussion" he seemed to be tending towards the SB Phantom - since he will be on a small lake as well..
----------------------
some discussion on this subject here as well: http://www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22491
(Catapulting Aaron commented average American male windsurfer is more like 80 kilos or 176 pounds.)
 |
| Dave White ripping it up !! |
At just under 100 kilos, what does that make me ?? The doctor says my weight is okay and i could stand to lose a few pounds, butt i am no longer in the so called obese category as per BMI. When i call myself "average joe windsurfer", it is in terms of skills and experience and NOT in terms of weight. Perhaps i should call myself average BIG joe windsurfer ?? :-) {why does this blog not post smiling faces ?? :-)}
I started this post due to a long time frustration and this entry on the MauiSails forum: http://www.mauisails.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3213
This gentleman,Mike, windsurfed many years ago and wishes to get back into the sport on a lake environment. As a heavyweight it was recommended he purchase a Fanatic Viper 85 which is 220 liters and obviously 85 cm wide with a very small learner sail 6.0. Personally feel this is "putz about" equipment and the gentleman will outgrow it extremely quickly. Also, around 2006 Fanatic was suggesting more narrow boards - around 80 cm. I posted an entry on the Fanatic forum to see what they have to say about the width factor on the Viper ...
"back in about 2006 Fanatic seemed to be going away from very wide boards and staying under 80 cm. There is an 85 cm wide Viper available now. On the MauiSails forum a gentleman was asking about this board. He weighs about 250 lbs and wishes to sail on small to large lakes. My question is whether he would be better off with an 80 cm board which can glide through holes and plane up great in bigger winds. "
This was the answer from Fanatic forum:
"Hi Joe,
I guess that Viper 85 has been in the line since about 2006, actually mainly due to US market at first, although nowdays most of our schools share 80/85 sizes equally. For 250lbs, he might be better off on the 85, the extra width and volume does not hurt, especially for fresh water sailing. Depends a bit on the winds obviously, if it´s constantly windy, the 80 might work, but doubt it is on smaller lakes.
Good sailing,
Craig "
So, it depends on whether it will be more on the small lake or larger lake with bigger, steadier winds - and this makes good sense.
Here's the Fanatic sales pitch on youtube:
Mike has everything going against him - and that is regarding one of the greatest water sports around %^&* --- Not many longboards offered (or too technical and $$$), he is NOT an average weight person as per equipment setups and he is going on a lake.
Having windsurfed on a small lake of one mile length and less width for many years , a longboard is still the obvious choice. This issue today is - which one is the best for these lakes for not too much money ?? And once again - best for heavyweights of 100 + kilos... What was once a standard seems to be harder n harder to get. Then again, Starboard seems to be adding a centre-board to their larger GOs.
The other side of the coin is that the fastest windsurfers in the world are over 100 kilos and often tall as well. Antoine Albeau, Bjorn Dunkerbeck and Finian Maynard are some of the world's fastest and yet not small men. Dave White is a also a big man and known for incredible speeds and making it look effortless. Dave is a special windsurfer in that he does things with equipment that it was never intended to do - more on that later.
| Antoine on a narrow speed needle |
The sail seems to be a simpler "issue". I suggested a no-cam fully battened MS Pursuit 7.0 sail. This sail for a bigger fellow will get him started, not be too heavy and can be used in the future as a quite decent sail. Would have preferred an 8.5, but need to know skill potential first. More on that from Tinho later ...
If it was for a shortboard and a heavyweight returning back to windsurfing, I think the choice would be a little easier. A small reminder: I speak about flat water blasting with some chop. Those doing bump n jump and/or wave are on a different scale as far as I am concerned. So, a heavyweight over 100 kilos getting back into windsurfing on a shortboard... One could use a 135 liter board to be able to uphaul, especially a wide one, but that could be frustrating... Suggest a 160 liter shortboard with about 80 cm of width. Also, personally feel longer is better for coasting through lulls. AND would stick to the suggestion of a 7-oh sail to start. Later get that 8.5 and rip. My 230 lb buddy just purchased his second board - a Fanatic Hawk 135 - after his BIC Techno 2 160. Let's see how that goes - will he get rid of the 160 is the question !! He never went for the 10-oh - feeling it was just too big. He also wants to go to 8-oh when he replaces the 8.5. My 8.5 is practically my favourite setup for the BIC Dufour and the AHD FF !!
Follow-up: Now i am REALLY surprised. After just one trial run with the Fanatic Hawk 135 in overpowering conditions on a Retro 6-oh, Helmut has put his BIC Techno II 160 up for sale. This is against both my and Bruno of 2-rad's recommendation/suggestion. Not so sure the 135 will be a good schlogger. Once again, time will tell ...
Follow-up2: Attempts to run the 8.5 in 15 knot winds and wind shadows proved difficult. Almost impossible to uphaul. We'll see...
Follow-up3: Helmut beach started the Hawk 135 , planed, got in the foot-straps and hit his brand new Hawk with the mast :-(
Bruno of 2-rad ,who repaired the board for 20 bucks , says he can plane on his RRD 90 liter board using a 6.2 in 14 knots - and he is 200 lbs !!! For me that's my 160 liter board using my 10-oh !! And Helmut confirmed that 16 knots is perfect for the 8.5 So, how does Bruno do it ???
Okay, so, which longboard should a heavyweight use on a lake? GO, Serenity, KONA, Viper, AHD ZEN or ??? Width was discussed with the fanatic forum question earlier in this post... Seems like 80 to 90 cm is a good width for starting back.
Here is a pic of the AHD ZEN:
When I purchased my 2006 AHD FastForward/FF 160 in 2007, the original intent was to upgrade the BIC Dufour Wing longboard. On the short list were the Fanatic Viper and the AHD ZEN since both would be supplied by local windsurf shops. I had narrowed it down to the ZEN 170 since i would also use it on the St-Lawrence with hopes of going in bigger winds. Thus, I was NOT going for the 200+ liter boards. I will post this question to both AHD and Tinho Dornellas of Calema Sports in Florida - since he was the designer of this board ... Bruno André replied and seemed to feel the 80 cm board would be fine - he did not comment on volume. Tinho replied saying he uses both the Viper 80 and 85 for teaching. He agrees with Craig of Fanatic in that an 80 cm Viper is good for a heavyweight with some skills. Tinho also pointed out the fin that comes with the board is NOT adequate. This is an often overlooked detail - i did it here %^&*( Tinho also went so far as to suggest a larger performance sail ie possibility of cambers... The most i suggested was an 8.5 and had not even considered cambers since Mike was getting back in the sport and some people do not like the extra "hassle" of cambers. If it is an issue, it is NOT in terms of rigging, nor de-rigging. The worst problem i have encountered is failure of cams to rotate in light winds or when the sail is new and not hauled enough.. Oh yeah, Tinho mentioned the option of a SUP that can handle a sail as well...
Many of the Starboard/SB boards that are for "beginners" are 85 cm wide, but are much less in volume - around 170 liters. Boards of this genre and longboards today all have fully retractable centreboards. With a little bigger back fin they can act like a shortboard !! Then there are the new concepts like the KONA where the surface area on the water changes as one speeds up !!! The Serenity is a special animal that is not for all and seems to require some windsurf skills already. It reminds me of the sculls, but with a sail. There is always the SUP option with a sail as well now.I will put a post on the SB forum to see what Roger Jackson says for Starboard longboards to start back with as a heavyweight.
Roger has responded and suggested the SB Phantom 320 as a first choice, the RIO L as second and he reluctantly suggested the GO windsurfer as third. The Phantom is more like the traditional longboard. My only question is: where does one get one in the NE USA and how much ?? Saw some decent videos on this board !!!
What about Exocet KONA ONE 220 and Tabou Windstyler 220?? The Kona Link is 220 liters, 80 cm wide and costs about $1200 at windspirit.com. The Tabou Windstyler is 220 liters also, but only 72 cm wide. This is okay for a longboard, but is a choice one has to make ...Windsurfing-direct.com does not seem to have em - they have the slightly smaller Rider. Let me write Matt Pritchard... Matt is already in contact with Mike = excellent !! Jerry of the Toronto Windsurf club strongly suggests the KONA as a "modern" longboard. It seems there are more options that I originally had thought !! This is good news...
Here is a video of Tinho Dornella's custom board Z2 - made for heavyweights. Tinho was also the designer of the infamous AHD ZEN - another great starter board...
I had promised more on Dave White aka Whitey. Here is an article about a big windsurfer, who apparently now spends more time doing photography !!
http://www.guycribb.com/userfiles/documents/HavingItLarge.pdf
This is much BETTER than American Idol - which board will win ?? Scotty won AI, butt which board will win this race ??
Mike had said he would let us know the outcome of his hunt for the return to windsurfing. Let us wish him lots of luck !! At last "discussion" he seemed to be tending towards the SB Phantom - since he will be on a small lake as well..
----------------------
some discussion on this subject here as well: http://www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22491
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